Interview with Xinran Ma: From Architecture to Design, Then Toward Writing and Design with AI
Interview & Editing: Xiao He
Mother of Success
Opening
Xiao:
I first met Xinran through a mentorship program, and later I also took his design class. I’m really happy we can sit down again and talk. Xinran, could you start by introducing yourself?
Xinran:
I’m the founder of Design with AI, an educational company focusing on the practical application of AI in design. Its main newsletter, designwithai.co, currently has over 17K subscribers on Substack. I also teach a course on AI for product designers.
Three months ago, I quit my previous full-time job — a great fully remote role. My wife said that if I had asked 20 people, probably 19 of them would have told me “wait”. But I took a leap of faith regardless.
The reason is that for the past five years, an inner fire has been growing. I felt I was made for more than what I was doing every day in my full-time job, and I wanted to pursue a different lifestyle—and a mission—that were closer to my heart.
As a first-generation immigrant living in New York with children, that decision came with huge pressure. But those five years of preparation finally led me here, so when my side income surpassed my full-time income for the first time this year, I took the leap.
From Architecture to Design: From “Following the Path” to “Actively Choosing”
Xiao:
You studied architecture at Columbia University and worked as an architect for several years. Looking back, how would you describe that period?
Xinran:
Honestly, I feel like I wasted a lot of time (laughs). I matured late and my self-awareness came much later.
I followed the standard path: architecture undergrad → architecture grad school → architect → licensing. I walked a linear, expected path without clarifying and pursuing what I truly wanted. I stayed, or struggled, inside my comfort zone for a long time.
That said, life shouldn’t be spent on regret. That experience became part of who I am today and eventually gave me a lot of strength to pursue things.
Xiao:
Is there any memory from that time that still makes you smile?
Xinran:
Yes. I’m really glad I spent almost a month in India as part of a school program. That experience is something I still cherish.
Why Leave Architecture?
Xiao:
How did the shift from architecture to product design happen?
Xinran:
The “official” reason is that I liked the fast iteration cycles of product design. A single architecture project can take three to five years — the gratification cycle is very long. Not to mention I’ll be closer with exciting technologies in a fast-growing field. There are also a lot in common between architecture and product design, despite some differences in mindsets.
But the real reason is a bit harsh: Architects are paid too little to support a family.
At the time, my wife was pregnant, and I had to make a change to create a better life for my family.
From the outside, the career switch may look smooth — a good portfolio, lots of interviews from great companies — but in reality it was incredibly hard. The timing wasn’t ideal: UX was already more saturated compared to prior years, and halfway through my transition, the pandemic hit. There were barely any openings.
I remember feeling extremely discouraged. But overcoming that period gave me the confidence and faith to make bigger decisions later, including quitting my full-time job to explore a new solopreneurial path.
Writing: How Words Help You See Yourself Again
Xiao:
You’ve written several books on career transition and design, and you write frequently on Substack. What made you decide to write down your experiences?
Xinran:
Three things happened around the same time:
My first child was born. That major life event naturally inspired me to write.
I successfully made the career switch. After so many struggles, I felt the urge to document what I learned.
I was reading many self-help and personal development books. Reading a lot often leads to wanting to write.
All three added up and gave me a strong push to write. I started with handwritten drafts — a whole stack of pages. At the time, I was still on a work visa so couldn’t earn side income, so the drafts sat in a closet for years. When I knew I was close to getting my green card, I pulled them back out and started to put them into a book.
“The Limiting Beliefs You Give Yourself”
Xiao:
Has writing become a long-term habit for you?
Xinran:
In some ways, yes. As a kid, I loved reading, especially history, and wrote little poems. In middle and high school I wrote essays; in my freshman year of college I wrote poems again (laughs) because I was in love.
But from sophomore year through my early working years, I barely wrote anything, and only read architecture-related books. I just didn’t feel the urge to write.
It wasn’t until that turning point — changing careers, becoming a father, reading a lot — that I realized:
The reason I didn’t change earlier was because I had countless limiting beliefs I wasn’t even aware of.
After that hit me, writing started to flow again.
From Twitter to LinkedIn, Then to Substack
Xiao:
You mostly write in English now. How did that choice happen?
Xinran:
I started on Twitter, then moved to LinkedIn, and eventually to Substack.
My Substack newsletter focuses on design and AI, but if you look at my Substack Notes, most of the past two years are actually life reflections, not design.
I write in English because my audience is largely English-speaking, and I read a lot of English books, so sometimes the writings come more naturally in English.
I also write in Chinese, but mostly for personal things — diaries of my kids, personal reflections. I have no plans yet to publish those.
Vulnerability, Honesty, and Trust: Why Share So Openly Online?
Xiao:
You share very openly and honestly online. Do you feel vulnerable?
Xinran:
I think I’ve reached a point where I don’t take myself too seriously anymore (laughs). One day I shockingly noticed I had more gray hair than I remembered. That moment made me reflect on life — what am I waiting for?
When that happened, I naturally started to care less about others’ opinions compared to before. And if something I share helps someone somewhere going through similar struggles, then all the ones I went through have more meaning.
And I believe that especially in the AI era, authentic, emotionally genuine content is what builds trust.
You have to give a part of yourself first in order to connect with others.
Role Models
Xinran:
Many people have influenced me. For example, Will (a podcast guest I interviewed). His energy and the way he chases his dreams are inspiring.
I also love Naval Ravikant and Derek Sivers. I’m inspired by Derek Sivers to the point that I bought multiple copies of his books to give to friends. By the way, all the royalties from his books get automatically donated — he keeps none of it.
Book Recommendations
At the end of the interview, as usual, Xinran recommends a few books:
The Almanack of Naval Ravikant
The Millionaire Fastlane
Awaken the Giant Within
The Art of Living
Hell Yeah or No
Tuesdays with Morrie
Xiao:
I learned so much from today’s conversation. Thank you so much, Xinran, for your honesty and generosity!